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ORIGINS OF LIFE | EVOLUTION | INTELLIGENT DESIGN

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abitofgreen
Member
#361 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 15:49
Reply 
wensam:
skipman, Dirac sounded well high up, on the high functioning side of autism or aspergers syndrome. Poor man, i bet his mother was a saint.

My thoughts exactly!
AllSpark
Member
#362 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:02
Reply 
Abitofgrn
You say maths ( numbers ) are a decoding tool used by our brains. But you cant have a brain without using maths to build it !
Its the chicken and the egg....... the only set of rules that have to be in place before anything you care to mention can exist, IS mathematics ( numbers ).
Its not a western view, its universal.
Numbers have unique properties, and you cannot explain anything without using them......whatever dimension or universe you are in, they are everywhere and unchangeable.
abitofgreen
Member
#363 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:10 | Edited by: abitofgreen
Reply 
AllSpark:
You say maths ( numbers ) are a decoding tool used by our brains. But you cant have a brain without using maths to build it !

The brain is also consciousness.....everything is! You cant have mathematics without a brain to decode it. Nothing exists without the consciousness of the observer.

AllSpark:
Its not a western view, its universal.

I would disagree here...it is far from a universal view.

We're not a million miles apart Allspark....we just call it different names.

Another good quote from Einstein...."As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
AllSpark
Member
#364 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:23
Reply 
Mathmatics are the rules, number is the rulebook ( for want of a better term ) they dont have to be observed , because they are just simlply there.... its linear but can explain all things non linear.
Take Duality for example, there is no single universally agreed definition that unifies all concepts of duality. Thats because you cannot have 2 things that come into excistance at exactly the same time. The reason....... because the rules dont allow it.
wensam
Member
#365 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:23 | Edited by: wensam
Reply 
abitofgreen:
The brain is also consciousness.....everything is! You cant have mathematics without a brain to decode it. Nothing exists without the consciousness of the observer.

I like the logic here, but how is consciousness itself formed?
If it is formed through vibration/frequencies then the forms associated with sacred geometry kick in (numbers in action or a reflection of oscillation?)
The number systems we use appear to reflect nature, eg. fibonacci etc, so the numbers as well as being symbolic are building blocks? We have used numbers to define ourselves, to order the universe. On the other hand the beat of our heart has a measurable rhythm, children count better, or learn 1:1 correspondence re concepts of 'amounts' better with a rhythm to help them count the object once.... it's a big subject.
abitofgreen
Member
#366 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:32 | Edited by: abitofgreen
Reply 
AllSpark:
Mathmatics are the rules, number is the rulebook ( for want of a better term ) they dont have to be observed

For this reality to an extent your probably right re decoding, but again I would argue that nothing what so ever exists without an observer

AllSpark:
because they are just simlply there.... its linear but can explain all things non linear.

They are only there by virtue of universal consciousness.

AllSpark:
The reason....... because the rules dont allow it.

There are no hard and fast rules, only imagined, believed ones.

If I remember correctly you were going to read some of Icke's books. Have a read of them as he explains all this far better than me. Just to be clear, I haven't come to these conclusions through people like Icke and others, I came to them of my own accord and direct personal experience after which I came across Icke's work and was encouraged as he had formed the exact same views of reality. He is spot on IMO.
Kozmik
Member
#367 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:33
Reply 
Mathematics, as a subject,, was my absolute worst one, without doubt. Yet, I play the piano/organ/keyboard and I thought there was some correlation wth musical ability and mathematic ability.... I'm left handed for writing with a pen but would fire a pistol right handed, a rifle, left handed... bloody weirdo that I am
wensam
Member
#368 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:34
Reply 
AllSpark:
Thanks for responding wensam.....
so come on, lets hear one of your ideas. Straight from your own head. :)

Would be a pleasure, however i dont think i have any truly original ideas yet, it's all a mixture of other peoples ideas, a collage of thoughts. Or, if i have what i consider an original idea then i find out that someone had the same thought 2000 years ago!! lol
I wish to try to find out how to use my own body as a capacitor to create or tap into my own radiations which would be converted into a bio-field that would protect the body from harmful EMFs. Copper and specific crystals would be the relevant accessories for the job.
Ok, what you think AllSpark, sci-fi or just plain crazy?
abitofgreen
Member
#369 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:37 | Edited by: abitofgreen
Reply 
wensam:
I like the logic here, but how is consciousness itself formed?

Bit of a cop-out but it just is...

wensam:
If it is formed through vibration/frequencies then the forms associated with sacred geometry kick in (numbers in action or a reflection of oscillation?)

Our perceived reality is formed this way.

No one here....In fact no scientist can even prove that reality is external, as opposed to our internal perceptions forming reality using consciousness. The only thing I know for certain is that I exist....That is all we can know....for all I know you lot aren't real ;)...lol
AllSpark
Member
#370 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 17:08
Reply 
Abitofgrn
I hear all the time this about nothing can exist without the observer. IMO thats a load of bollox. All the observer does is decode it, try to understand it etc. I fail to see why an observer is required for something to exist. To say that rules are merely imagined is innacurate. When we arrived into the matrix of the mathematical lattice, the rules were already in place, they had to be otherwise we would not be able to enter ( whether it be by physical presence or by consciosness ). The discovery of the rules is what happened.
I am looking forward to Ickes books. I am starting a work related course soon to do something different, so am researching before i get there in order to prepare. I will get to the books soon enough.
Kozmik.... lol , sounds like you left right brain functions are meeting in the middle ( rather an advanced stage of brain function) and you are able to use both ...... cool !
There is a famous piano player who developed his mathematical skills just by learning to play. There is a strong link between the two as i'm sure you are aware. Can't remember that blokes name.
Wensam, i have to go shopping now. I will have a think about it when i get back.
wensam
Member
#371 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 17:12
Reply 
abitofgreen:
for all I know you lot aren't real ;)...lol

LOL
abitofgreen
Member
#372 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 17:25 | Edited by: abitofgreen
Reply 
AllSpark:
I hear all the time this about nothing can exist without the observer. IMO thats a load of bollox.

The scary thing is science is starting to prove just that with experimentation. IMO they will go on to conclusively prove it beyond doubt.

If you look at the quantum measurement problem for example....

The peculiar discovery known as "The Quantum Measurement Problem" ultimately shows the inseparability of the observer from the observed. All quantum experiments have confirmed that there is no measurable, solid reality "out there" independent of the measurer. What is "out there" when we're not looking is an infinite wavy cloud of criss-crossing possibilities. Then when we focus our attention on something, the wave function collapses into a defined particle in a definite location for us to observe.

A quote from Jim Al-Khalili, Nuclear Physicist....."If you want to see fear in a quantum physicist's eyes, just mention the words, 'the measurement problem.' The measurement problem is this: an atom only appears in a particular place if you measure it. In other words, an atom is spread out all over the place until a conscious observer decides to look at it. So the act of measurement or observation creates the entire universe."
AllSpark
Member
#373 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 18:25
Reply 
Abitogrn
yes ive read about this. IMO opinion it's an ' interface' problem that they cant seem to get their heads around. I think Sheldrakes morphogenetic field shows that you dont have to be aware of the actual state of the system for it to be there.
To quote the great man "A rough analogy is provided by the lines of force in the magnetic field around a magnet; these spatial structures are revealed when particles capable of being magnetised, such as iron filings, are introduced into the vacinity. Nevertheless, the magnetic field exists even when the iron filings are absent.
This links in with Wensams ideas, have you seen 'Dune' ? Remeber the sheild created around the guys body. The morphogenetic field as a spatial structure even though it has not yet been actualized, provides a possibilty that wensam could theoriticaly develop a shield and activate it. Although we may think this is on the outskirts of the realm of possibilities, wensam could develop herself into a superhero :)
so, No wensam, i dont think your crazy.
I think its possible that tesla was in touch with the morphogenetic field when he said.... " The pieces of aperatus i conceive were to me absolutely real and tangible in every detail, even to the minute marks and signs of wear "..... remember that tesla very rarely made diagrams of his creations, they were all pictures in his head. .........WOW.

Ref: A new science of life.... Rupert Sheldrake
Ref: Wizard, the life & times of Nikola Tesla
AllSpark
Member
#374 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 19:13
Reply 
If your interested, i have developed an experiment should you want to give it a go...... it will blow your mind.

Choose an object in your home that you have not examined closely. It should be approx between 4 to 6 inches in height and width. My object is my bath taps. Now stand or sit more than 4 feet away and sketch the outline. From this moment on you must not get any closer to the object until the experiment is near the end. Now..... every day sit and look at the object from the required distance ( i do this when i am in the bath ) for no more than 5 minutes. Next... every night when you first get into bed, picture the object in your mind. Now, this may take a week of doing this every day or it may take longer.
But every morning you awake ( make sure you have your sketch available when you first wake up) look at the sketch.... eventually, when you are ready, you will see small marks,dents,imperfections appear..... draw them onto the sketch. You may need to have more than one sketch because you will see ' marks etc' appearing at the back which cannot be seen from the front. After a while of adding these, go and get a magnifying glass and have a close inspection of the chosen object.
Of course, the best object to choose would be something that you are not already familiar with, so you could go and buy something from a charity shop for 50p if you like, but remember not to look to closely at it.
Record in a log : the dates, the time you went to sleep and the time you woke up, y or n if you have something to add to the objects sketch ( it wont happen at the beginning, and sometimes not at all). But if you stick with it, you will find that anyone can access morphic resonance fields for inanimate objects...the boson field, the matrix, the lattice.... call it what you will.
wensam
Member
#375 | Posted: 9 Feb 2013 19:20
Reply 
AllSpark:
Wizard, the life & times of Nikola Tesla

I am fascinated by this person. In photos he looks incredibly calm, knowing and yet in life he had to live with OCD- another Aspergery personality, like Dirac, but bidable!
The visualisation processes within their brains must have been outstanding. Years ago i participated in some kinesiology training. One of the excercises they got us to do was to visualise car. I saw a 5door hatchback side on. I did not produce a 3D image of the car- it was like a girl child's drawing!lol Aparently this is perfectly normal if female- a man would think in 3D and this also explains why i am so bad at navigation, but i cope by using different strategies- colours, shapes, landmarks. My point is that these men had a highly tuned ability to perceive, construct and deconstruct. I wonder what levels of magnetite they had in their bodies- what their chemical balance was like.

Dune- I have never seen- only art work. Thanks for entertaining the thoughts and i will meditate on your words AllSpark.

Abogs contribution acknowedged with thanks.
abitofgreen:
"The Quantum Measurement Problem" ultimately shows the inseparability of the observer from the observed.

I was discussing this with MrW and asked him the philosophical question:
'If a tree falls down in a remote forest and no one is there does it make a sound?
His answer was that the sound would be evident re the debris on the ground- the image of the force of the sound and movement. Since it is material and part of the concrete state then it will make a sound.
So, the observer can be removed from the experience/situation and it will still 'make a noise' or leave an imprint. The observer is not paramount here. In anything manmade the human as viewer is of the highest importance, especially in capitalism with all it's trimmings, including religion. Nature on the other hand exists in awe of herself. Technology promotes leisure and free time, nature generally works full time.
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