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INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES

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Desdichado
Member
#481 | Posted: 7 Aug 2014 23:21 | Edited by: Desdichado
Reply 
nordsee220:
I worked at British Gas(*) at the time. My mate Andy Y**** took a day's unpaid leave to support the miners in Northumberland. On the "line" he saw his brother in a copper's uniform.
His brother was in fact a squaddie. Andy called him all the bastards under the sun and his brother said he was just doing what he was ordered to do. Andy said that Hitler's followers said the same thing and vowed never to speak to his brother again.

If you don't want to believe it, as Alan Bean said about Apollo, "...that's fine. That's one of the benefits of living in a free country. You can believe anything you want....

And we all know the Bullshit Broadcrapping Castration won't tell you the truth.

Andy was no liar and neither am I. And yes, he said the coppers were waving bunches of money at the miners who were fighting for a bloody living whilst those in Little England had no idea of the atrocities being carried out against those "disgusting" mine workers.

I'm glad you posted this. As I said, I've only ever come across vague details about army involvement in the strike; at least squaddies standing face-to-face with strikers. It's well-known that Thatcher had plans in place to send in the army but what has never been revealed is how far advanced those plans were.

I've no reason to doubt you at all. I'm sorry if my post upset you but from what little research I've done, I've only ever heard rumours and nothing else about soldiers in police uniform. It makes sense insofar as the police were overstretched at the time and in need of support from wherever they could get it.

As I said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if troops were used. It wouldn't be the first time in British history that soldiers had been set against miners. In 1984, the Tory government was in real danger and dirty tricks were the order of the day. One woman I knew went with some SWP members up to Yorkshire to help out in one of the soup kitchens that were set up to feed the miners and their families. They were pulled over by the police about 10 miles from their destination and hauled off into the back of a police transit van where they were roughed up by men they took to be members of the SPG (that's what they were told). The police cordon was spread much further than a 10 mile radius because the coppers told them they'd been following them for half-an-hour.

Are you still in touch with your friend? If so, I know a very friendly journalist (freelance) who'd be interested in this story.

Edit: After reading your post, I dug out my copy of Tony Benn's "Diaries." He mentions an incident on a train when he was approached by the conductor, an ex-squaddie, who told him that he had been on the picket lines dressed in police uniform. The regiments involved were the Military Police, the Royal Green Jackets, and the Special Air Service. Was your friend's brother in any of these units?

Here's a link to the Google Bookversion:

http://books.google.com/books?id=LdCp8S5XK9wC&pg=PA591&lpg=PA591&dq=tony+benn+diaries +miners+strike+SAS+green+jackets&source=bl&ots=yXqpFJdQfL&sig=RsSTaORfRbbcZMem6ocJbVq du5g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gx7kU4HNO8a78QH84YHADg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=tony%20benn%20d iaries%20miners%20strike%20SAS%20green%20jackets&f=false
nordsee220
Member
#482 | Posted: 8 Aug 2014 10:13 | Edited by: nordsee220
Reply 
It's not your posting the matter that upsets me. It's the way the truth was hidden from the masses.

I'm staying with my female friend in a town near to Durham (hello Jeff if you're reading). This and so many others were destroyed when the mines were closed. Virtually every household depended upon the mining industry whether directly with husband or sons working there, or indirectly - suppliers, bus companies, garages even bicycle shops then sub-directly like butchers, bakers and yes bloody candle stick makers. You rip the major industry out of an entire area, not just a few streets or houses, complete towns and everything in that town suffers. People don't need the buses or the garages or even the bike shops. They can't afford a Sunday roast and birthday cakes - forget it.

People were encouraged to take on debt to buy their houses then kneecapped when the entire town was scrapped. They paid (at the time) around 15k to 25k for houses, took on 10k to 20k mortgages then the entire town property market was imploded and the house was worth 5k, 8k or maybe, if you had something out of the ordinary 10k or 12k.

Ok, I argue this one with ex miners: You can't produce anything that costs more to get/make/fabricate than you can sell it for. Business has to run at least at break even (for essential services) or make a profit. There's a whole world of difference though between a decent profit and making a killing then destroying a whole geographic area. Obviously exceptions exist like the NHS and some mines that would produce a particular type of coal needed for a particular purpose.

Mines did make profits but I firmly believe the books were cooked to make them appear to be huge loss makers.

I suggest you watch a film called "Brassed Off".

Regarding Andy Y****. I haven't seen him in a few years and now live about 40 miles from when I last saw him.

"Ding Dong"
Desdichado
Member
#483 | Posted: 8 Aug 2014 15:20
Reply 
nordsee220:

I'm staying with my female friend in a town near to Durham (hello Jeff if you're reading). This and so many others were destroyed when the mines were closed. Virtually every household depended upon the mining industry whether directly with husband or sons working there, or indirectly - suppliers, bus companies, garages even bicycle shops then sub-directly like butchers, bakers and yes bloody candle stick makers. You rip the major industry out of an entire area, not just a few streets or houses, complete towns and everything in that town suffers. People don't need the buses or the garages or even the bike shops. They can't afford a Sunday roast and birthday cakes - forget it.

This encapsulates the problem that we've been facing, to one degree or another, for decades. The UK, and much of the USA, is now relegated to a service economy whereas once, we were industrial powerhouses. It's the "knock-on" effect that's designed to oppress.

Take Wal-Mart in the USA as another example. Their MO in the 80s was to size up a small town and buy land. On that land they'd build a mega-store that sold everything from nappies to prescription drugs. They undercut local merchants by a considerable margin with the result that shoppers flocked to Wal-Mart for the cheaper prices. Merchants went out of business in no time and pretty soon, what had once been a thriving high street was empty. Wal-Mart cornered the market then, as soon as the competition was gone, prices rose. Soon, the consumers were no better off and were stuck with Wal-Mart for their sole source of goods.

Look at British Rail. OK, we all made jokes about it, but its infrastructure was far superior to anything we've got today. It costs more to travel from Kings Cross to York than it does to fly to bloody Mallorca.

The NHS is about to go the same way. Why do they need so many managers? Why are we allowing the government to sell our most prized asset to corporate fat cats? It's not theirs to sell. The NHS was founded for the people of Britain after one of the costliest wars in history. Nye Bevan, whose baby the NHS was, held a deep hatred for the Tories. He knew damned well that control of industry is central to political control. That is what they did with the mines, the railways, the car industry, and numerous others. Now all we do is serve the rich.

"It is an axiom, enforced by all the experience of the ages, that they who rule industrially will rule politically." - Nye Bevan
Kozmik
Member
#484 | Posted: 8 Aug 2014 15:25
Reply 
Regarding the Miners, etc. I've mentioned it before i'm sure, but a fuller picture of what Thatch was up to should include "The Battle of the Beanfield" [you can Google it for video, and it's on wikipedia] where, during the summer of 1985 the Wiltshire Cuntsabulary probably including soldiers, illegally attacked and arrested over 500 men women and children who were peacefully making their way to the Free Festival at Stonehenge. The Filth were later successfully sued in court for their disgraceful behaviour and had to pay damages, although our corrupt system ensured they still lost out because the judge did not award costs. And the corrupt meeja did everything they could to downplay it all. Nothing new there then.
As an 18 year old I had attended the previous year's festival and it opened my eyes and my mind i can tell you.
nordsee220
Member
#485 | Posted: 8 Aug 2014 17:12 | Edited by: nordsee220
Reply 
Desdichado:
Take Wal-Mart in the USA as another example. Their MO in the 80s was to size up a small town and buy land. On that land they'd build a mega-store that sold everything from nappies to prescription drugs. They undercut local merchants by a considerable margin..... Wal-Mart cornered the market then, as soon as the competition was gone, prices rose. Soon, the consumers were no better off and were stuck with Wal-Mart for their sole source of goods.

20 years ago I could see the same happening in the UK with TESCO, ASDA and SAINSBURYS. I was a single dad, out of work with poor health and having to watch every penny. I began shopping at ALDI. Their stuff was reasonable but not as good as some of the brand names. I stuck with them though and gradually their quality improved until now it is somewhere between very good and excellent.

When I met Marion she preferred Tesco and wouldn't go into Aldi. She thought the odd few pence savings on "everything" weren't worth the hassle. She's now changed her views although she still hankers for Tesco, saying that even Aldi prices are creeping up.
I point out to her, if Aldi vanished overnight then I believe Tesco would do away with all their bargain range and prices would rocket again. So I stick with ALDI for as much of the stuff I need as possible.

A recent example, strawberries. 2 at Tesco, 1.59 at Aldi. Marion thought the "few pence extra" wasn't worth considering but that "few pence" is in fact 25%.
A Warburton's loaf at ALDI 1 and the same loaf at Tesco I think was 1.59.

A few pence?

More like a huge sum.

Anyway, we seem to be off topic but ARE WE?

Isn't this all just social engineering with those at the helm misguiding the course of the ship occasionally?
Desdichado
Member
#486 | Posted: 8 Aug 2014 19:45
Reply 
Kozmik:
Regarding the Miners, etc. I've mentioned it before i'm sure, but a fuller picture of what Thatch was up to should include "The Battle of the Beanfield" [you can Google it for video, and it's on wikipedia] where, during the summer of 1985 the Wiltshire Cuntsabulary probably including soldiers, illegally attacked and arrested over 500 men women and children who were peacefully making their way to the Free Festival at Stonehenge. The Filth were later successfully sued in court for their disgraceful behaviour and had to pay damages, although our corrupt system ensured they still lost out because the judge did not award costs. And the corrupt meeja did everything they could to downplay it all. Nothing new there then.
As an 18 year old I had attended the previous year's festival and it opened my eyes and my mind i can tell you.

I'll tell you where the troops were present - Brixton in 1981. A journo that I knew from one of the dailies (not a Murdoch rag) had it first hand that members of the Counter-Revolutionary Warfare Troop of the SAS, based at the Duke of York's Barracks on the Kings' Road in Chelsea were more than interested observers of the riots. As well as that, members of the SPG went round known NF hangouts encouraging people to go and help the police.

In 1975, I was a student in London. At that time, the IRA was active and that winter, they escalated their campaign. They shot Ross McWhirter dead on his doorstep and went on the rampage in the West End, shooting up a restaurant in Mayfair. An active service unit was cornered in a flat on Balcombe Street. It was leaked to the press at the time that the SAS were on standby ready to go in and upon hearing that, the ASU gave up. That's the official line anyway.

I was living in Bloomsbury at the time and the British Museum was considered a prime target for the IRA. Lots of unmarked cars would be seen at night just cruising around which alarmed some people enough to call the police. One lecturer took down a registration number but was later told "it's all right, that's a MoD car." So army units were on the prowl in plain clothes even back then.
wensam
Member
#487 | Posted: 8 Aug 2014 20:02
Reply 
Interesting thread folks, thanks.

I was a child during this period. I have vague memories from the news. I picture masses of police swarming men, men that looked like my dad being beaten for standing up for something, being their livelihoods. I remember feeling sad, not understanding why people had to do this.

So its good to hear what people, who were conscious at the time thought and now being able to share their experiences and thoughts.
Desdichado
Member
#488 | Posted: 9 Aug 2014 19:16
Reply 
Another name that springs to mind from that era is Stephen Waldorf who was shot and badly wounded by police 32 years ago in Earls Court. Waldorf, a film director, was driving in the West End in a hire car when he encountered two armed plain-clothes officers who were hunting for an armed man who was at large in West London.

Waldorf was a passenger in the car that was driven by his friend, but also in the vehicle was a friend of the wanted man. Police kept tabs on the Mini as it drove along Pembroke Road where it got caught up in traffic. One detective approached the Mini with gun drawn. He later said that he thought he saw the passenger (Waldorf) reach behind him at which point he opened fire hitting Waldorf. Another officer then opened fire through the rear window hitting Waldorf again. The first officer then put the barrel of his revolver between Waldorf's eyes to execute him, but the gun did not fire; he was out of ammo. He then pistol-whipped the badly wounded man.

Amazingly, Waldorf did not die. He survived to see the two officers put on trial for
attempted murder. But never underestimate the judiciary. They were both cleared and walked away Scot-free. Waldorf was awarded just 150,000 in damages.
nordsee220
Member
#489 | Posted: 9 Aug 2014 19:39 | Edited by: nordsee220
Reply 
Desdichado:
But never underestimate the judiciary.

On the other hand, never underestimate the establishment.

Let's suppose you were picked to, say, go to the moon but the mission never actually went.

You'd seen a work colleague burned to death for what you believe was speaking out against the project.

You test flew the vehicle you were supposed to land on the moon and were lucky to escape with your life when it crashed.

Would YOU speak out against the establishment?

My point being, in what danger would a juror, judge or lawyer place him/herself, their partners, children or even their next door neighbours' children by opening his or her big gob?

I think I'd STFU. (Keep quiet.)
Desdichado
Member
#490 | Posted: 9 Aug 2014 19:57
Reply 
In those days, securing a conviction against the police was nigh-on impossible. No CCTV back then, no mobile phones, nothing. It was the coppers' word against the occupants of the car. The fact that one of them tried to execute a wounded man, who only survived because the gun was empty, cut no ice with the jury is telling.

What is interesting about that trial is that our old chum, Sir Nigel Havers, was involved at the outset as A-G. According to the Glasgow Herald, public opinion, whilst sympathetic to Waldorf, was supportive of the police in their fight against armed criminals in London. Even Waldorf's family uttered statements to this effect. The police walked away from that with their reputation intact.
Joe
Member
#491 | Posted: 9 Aug 2014 20:30 | Edited by: Joe
Reply 
nordsee220:
Would YOU speak out against the establishment?

My point being, in what danger would a juror, judge or lawyer place him/herself, their partners, children or even their next door neighbours' children by opening his or her big gob?

It's organised crime - we live under mafia rule - known as the establishment; except, the mafia only killed other criminal gangs! The establishment are fucking up the world for everybody. Maybe we need another organisation (The Untouchables) to fight against the establishment and use their own measures back on them.
wensam
Member
#492 | Posted: 9 Aug 2014 22:09
Reply 
Joe:
It's organised crime - we live under mafia rule - known as the establishment; except, the mafia only killed other criminal gangs! The establishment are fucking up the world for everybody. Maybe we need another organisation (The Untouchables) to fight against the establishment and use their own measures back on them.

Well said Joe. I know I keep saying it, but from where I am standing if the police, lawyers, nurses, doctors and teachers stood up together in the name of protecting the welfare of the people, i wonder what might happen. I know individuals in all sectors who feel the same as us.

Enough is enough.
nordsee220
Member
#493 | Posted: 10 Aug 2014 08:39 | Edited by: nordsee220
Reply 
wensam:
if the police, lawyers, nurses, doctors and teachers stood up together in the name of protecting the welfare of the people, i wonder what might happen. I know individuals in all sectors who feel the same as us.

When you go for a job interview you're almost always asked whether you're an individual or a team player. I always answered that I was an individual within a team and that always caused raised eyebrows. Wrong answer.

As you say, there are individuals in every discipline but I believe those individuals are made to feel heavily outnumbered by the masses they're made to perceive go along with the "proper view".

We've seen so many "troofer" (as those in established or official circles like to joke) organisations infiltrated by propagandist professionals that it's difficult to know where to turn. So, for one, I keep telling people about laws of physics being suspended, impossible timetables and timewarp TV where the news is broadcast before it happens. If time permits, I throw in the funnier apsects such as "Mr Bean Goes To The Moon" where NASA employed a guy, who hadn't a clue about space, to fly their multi billion dollar rocket to the moon. Anybody seen a Van Allen belt? Nah! We're not going that far mate!

When I first learned that 9/11 was a lie and 7/7 the same I found almost no-one wanted to hear. That was about 3 years ago. Now however I find more and more people doubt the official stories. Not 50% but a growing number to the point it's an appreciable proportion. At a guesstimate, maybe 20 to 25% and that's a helluva lot more than 3 years back. I found quite by accident that there are 3 blokes in this street of about 80 houses, who are avid Richplanet followers. Once over nobody knew of him and that's why we need to keep supporting the bloke. Especially now he's felt the weight of my pet hate, the broadcasting act.

Maybe, before too long, there'll be more of "us" than "them" but we will be infiltrated by "them" for they have the kingdoms, the power and the glory.

Hopefully, not for ever and ever.
Joe
Member
#494 | Posted: 10 Aug 2014 16:11 | Edited by: Joe
Reply 
wensam:
I know I keep saying it, but from where I am standing if the police, lawyers, nurses, doctors and teachers stood up together in the name of protecting the welfare of the people, i wonder what might happen. I know individuals in all sectors who feel the same as us.

We need a world union with a well written out constitution in plain English, and accepted by ordinary people (the true People's Voice) around the globe who just want to get on with life in harmony and freedom and wish the same for their fellow human beings. If the English language is set down clearly, then every layperson will understand the written language and is not open for misinterpretation. I think generally, English will be the preferred language for this purpose as most people learn English in schools around the world etc and use it as their second language (stuff the French language).

Until the human race develops (if that ever takes place), we need a written constitution as a reminder to ourselves and how we should behave towards one another (with respect and other virtues)...

Those that go against this new constitution and are not content with living a peaceful life amongst the rest of us - they will become outcasts for life, because they go against humanity for their own evil means and it will not be tolerated. They will lose all privileges - the rest of humanity will shun them and no one will tend to their needs (this will take power away from them to do wrong - like punishing a child). Nobody shall be immune to this new bill of rights. I would like to think that most people on this planet just want to be happy in sharing this world (without wars) with others, regardless of race, colour and creed.
wensam
Member
#495 | Posted: 10 Aug 2014 20:32
Reply 
Joe:
We need a world union with a well written out constitution in plain English, and accepted by ordinary people (the true People's Voice) around the globe who just want to get on with life in harmony and freedom and wish the same for their fellow human beings.

Yes, if only, i tend to agree that the vasr majority of the planets population do want to live in peace and respect.

The trouble is that most people interested in a serious political career head off to westminster as the career prospects are better south of Watford.

If for example you or I stood as an independent candidate we would be subject to all sorts of gang stalking to put the frighteners on us in order to maintain the status quo.

As well as sending out positive vibes to Richard, we must also focus on those around us, especially the next generation. If the story that no new souls were incarnated since 2006 then let's hope they are clued up in terms fairness and deeply prudish in the process!
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