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#31 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 14:23
It looks like France is waiting until Bastille Day for Disclosure.
The Germans and Holland will follow thereafter.
Don`t mention the war !
#32 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 16:02 | Edited by: CTRILEY
Is there a Life On Mars Conspiracy?

I seem to recall that several years ago a probe to Mars (Russian I think) was lost and according to the official statements the last its reported to have seen through its camera a was a metalic object which changed direction to head towards its. Equally there was another probe which caught on film the first UFO seen on another planet. Although the official explaination was that it was debris from previous miisions burning up the atmosphere. If life does or ever existed on Mars it would be deep underground, where UV radiation can't touch it.

In the 1990s NASA claimed to have found a meterorite rock containing fossilised bacteria in a rock from Mars. Whilst the public handled it well, no panic etc., it could be said that this discovery contributed to a counter reaction, via a rise in creatiionism. Many creationists were an influence on the Bush adminstration. So if evidence was found proving life existed or existing elsewhere, it would be covered up for various reasons, including to appease powerful creationists.
#33 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 17:05
thanks ctriley the phobos 1/2 missions 86/89 im not sure if the russian probes count as they actualy released the information but i totally agree with the creational decenters, having a major role in the nasa coverups. i only wish we had kept our own space program going but i`m not sure how forthcoming our government would have been either :( maybe they didn`t want ted in a shed finding things out for himself?

here is a good 3 min vid on the russian probes :)
dark star
#34 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 17:53
f life does or ever existed on Mars it would be deep underground, where UV radiation can't touch it.

Not unless life can evolve resistant to such things. Bacteria has been found living in highly rsdioactive water from powerstations
#35 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 18:13 | Edited by: monkeyboy

Sunday, 14 June 2009 16:51 UK

The truth about Roswell?

UFO watchers believe that in 1947 a flying saucer with aliens on board landed outside the New Mexico town of Roswell and that an elaborate cover-up by the authorities followed. The BBC's Kevin Connolly went to Roswell in pursuit of the truth about the Roswell incident.

There is a lunar quality to the landscape of New Mexico which seems somehow appropriate for a state which is our portal to the heavens.
A mock-up of an alien autopsy at the International UFO Museum in Roswell, New Mexico
Roswell's International UFO Museum is a big draw for tourists

It is here on a dried-up lake bed high above sea level that the radio telescopes of the US government's Very Large Array (VLA) send signals to the outer edges of our expanding universe, chasing the very moment of the Big Bang through the trackless void of time and space.

And of course it is also here - perhaps - that 62 years ago a flying-saucer crashed to earth on a ranch outside the town of Roswell, killing its alien crew and prompting one of the most elaborate and protracted cover-ups in history.

The power of that possibility and the darkness of the nights here so far from the light pollution of the big cities are what draw scientists and curious tourists alike to this entrancing place.

And it is what motivates watchers of the skies to keep, well, watching the skies, obviously.

Alien ambiguity

If UFO true-believers are right, then nothing much that has happened on our tiny, fragile planet in the years since that stormy summer's night really matters very much.

What, after all, would Watergate, or Vietnam or Iraq amount to if we could establish that the US government knew for sure that we are not alone in the universe?

Most of the big questions about alien life and UFOs can be traced back to Roswell - not least the issue of how life-forms from another civilisation have such an uncanny sense of when the tourist industry in a small US town could use a shot in the arm.

My father saw the bodies, my father saw the craft
Julie Shuster, daughter of Roswell Air Force Base press officer

Are we really alone in the heavens, for example, and if we are not, do the civilisations with which we share the heavens mean us any harm?

Is it just a coincidence that aliens have never managed to find an earth-dweller who knows how to operate his own camera properly?

And why, if you have journeyed light years across the unknowable vastness of the heavens, would you confine yourself to a fleeting and ambiguous appearance before a handful of New Mexican ranchers?

Why not go the extra mile and find a research institute of some kind - unless our visitors have a sense of humour, of course.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Let us return to that stormy summer New Mexican night in 1947 when the story of the UFO landing first broke.

It was a world of tension and uncertainty.

The United States had detonated the first atom bombs - they were developed just up the road at Los Alamos, New Mexico - and was uneasily aware that the Soviet Union, its increasingly hostile former ally, had nuclear ambitions of its own. The Cold War was just beginning.


Roswell was in those days the home base of the 509th Bombardment Group of the US Eighth Army Air Force.

Most of the boys in the 509th were combat veterans and when they were tasked to investigate reports of some kind of landing on a ranch a short distance away it seems reasonable to assume they were not too excited at first. That soon changed.

When they got the material back to base, they quickly concluded they were onto something historic.

Their first press release talked of the recovery of a flying saucer - it was only when the suits descended from Washington that the tone of the official communiques changed.

The base intelligence officer who was tasked with taking the wreckage to another base reports leaving it in an office there and returning a few minutes later to find that the space debris he had brought had been replaced with parts of a weather balloon.
Dennis Balthaser
Dennis Balthaser believes the US government covered up a UFO crash

The fix was in. Faced with evidence of one of the most significant events in human history the American authorities had responded by pulling the old switcheroo.

One account of those days comes from Julie Shuster, whose father was the press officer at the Roswell base.

She now runs the museum in the town which is the focal point for the local UFO industry (it is on a street where the street lights have been decorated so that they look like alien heads).

For Julie there is a simple issue in all of this which goes back to the version of events her father passed on to her.

"My daddy didn't lie. My father saw the bodies, my father saw the craft," she says.

"He saw bodies - large heads, almond shaped eyes... and material that couldn't be burnt, ripped, cut - anything."

'Majestic 12'

It is not quite so personal for the other true believers in the incident.

Dennis Balthaser, for example, is a retired civil engineer who is perhaps the most meticulous researcher of the Roswell incident.

He has spent years (and thousands of dollars of his own money) tracing every witness and every player from that night in 1947 and is convinced that there was a landing.

Basically [the president] can't be trusted with information like this
Dennis Balthaser
Roswell researcher

But he is at his most compelling when talking about the cover-up which follows.

Dennis lives in a rather frightening world where the US government would be perfectly happy to murder anyone (including him) who got too close to the truth.

He believes the US is really governed by a kind of secret committee of senior military and intelligence officials with the president serving as a kind of hired hand to deal with the public.

"Basically he can't be trusted with information like this" says Dennis.

"Back in Truman's time, we're looking at a thing called 'majestic 12', which was a group of some of the highest military people, some of the highest dignitary people we had. I believe today we still have a group similar to that that calls the shots."

Even before I met Dennis, I knew he believed that space travellers helped build the pyramids - where I, for example, am more inclined to the view that they are probably the work of Egyptians.

I expected to find him hopelessly naive - but the funny thing is he is so lucid and convincing that I left feeling rather naive myself.

(And in case you were wondering - if anyone ever lifts a quote from this article to promote a book or a DVD it will be that previous sentence.)

Missing balloon?

But here is the problem.

I mentioned before that New Mexico is a place where real science and Roswell science-lite co-exist.

And it is in that proximity that our explanation probably lies.

At the VLA (that centre of government radio telescopy) they will tell you that around the time of the crash, the US government was sending up special high-altitude weather balloons made of a then-classified material.

They were looking for atmospheric evidence that the Russians were testing their own nuclear bomb.

On the night of the Roswell incident, one of those balloons went missing.

Until, perhaps, it was found by the boys of the 509th.

And all that stuff about alien bodies being recovered and autopsies being performed? Well I leave you to speculate about that for yourselves.

If you find all that a little disappointing then you can always employ the debating technique favoured by UFO true believers - the deployment of questions designed to expose the lack of absolute certainty in almost all human affairs.

How do you know, for example, that there really is not a government department 27 layers above top secret tasked with keeping an eye on these things?

Perhaps they insist that articles like this are submitted to them for screening before publication.

And maybe this is not the script I originally wrote and submitted - just the script they sent back.

You could hardly blame me for giving in - I am sure you would not want to find my bleached bones left out in the desert, would you?

All I am saying is - keep watching the skies.

#36 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 18:29 | Edited by: RICHPLANET.NET
This article although ends with the skeptic line, is far more open to the idea of extra terrestrial hypothesis than the BBC has ever been.

Why did they send this guy to New Mexico? It isn't even the anniversary of the event. There is no new information in his story? Are the BBC by doing this to cover their arses by moving to a more central position on the issue, because they know what might be coming?
The article has no ridicule in it at all which is practically unheard of for them. What is going on?
#37 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 18:33
14 June 2009

UFO disclosure: What went wrong in France?
Opinion piece by Michael Cohen
Last week UFO enthusiasts worldwide waited with baited breath for France to announce the words 'We are not alone'. The end of the week came and no such declaration was made. Many were disappointed, myself not in the least. Frankly I was rather devastated. There was a real chance that disclosure could have occurred last week, so what went wrong?
The reality is that GEIPAN, an official semi-government organization set up specifically to investigate the UFO phenomenon has enough evidence times ten to confirm that extraterrestrials are visiting our planet. A number of researchers within the group are keen to get the word out and they have backers in the wider CNES (Frances equivalent of NASA) structure within which they operate.
My own belief is that the US isn't quite as worried as people think about the prospect of France disclosing. I also do not subscribe to the more highly conspiratorial ideas regarding a world-wide cover-up that one often hears from UFO buffs. I do believe there are very good reasons why today's power elite might not like disclosure. An open ET presence would have a massive and irreversible effect on current power structures on our planet.

All that said, an announcement by France simply stating that they have concrete evidence that some UFOs are of ET origin is a far cry from Barack Obama standing next to an alien at a news conference on the White House lawn. It might also be great way to ease the world into any eventual reality: the future cannot be pushed off indefinitely.
The French political establishment is fairly apathetic to disclosure but by no means opposed to it. The current research Minister, Valerie Pecresse is regarded as a reformer and open-minded. The ingredients for disclosure are there. All it would take is those in GEIPAN (who have the evidence) and other supporters within various departments presenting the idea to the minister's and convincing her that disclosure is a good idea. All very doable.
A very different situation indeed from the US or for that matter my native Australia where a culture of secrecy is enshrined in any matters seen as relating to security. So why didn't it happen?
I cannot count the emails I have received criticising myself for reporting an upcoming event that clearly was not in the finality a certainty.Many thought I should have only reported this news if I was utterly and certifiably sure that it would occur. It is this very behaviour that keeps us waiting for disclosure to happen.
The employees of GEIPAN are scientists and by very nature highly tentative and cautious. Every day is a better day than today to disclose, it's always going to happen next week...'we just need a little more evidence, we need to finalise this or that detail'. Last week was such a week. It should have occurred, it was planned, but 'perhaps now might not be the optimum time'.
I was accused of looking for publicity with my story. Scientists don't like publicity; scientists also love knowing things others don't know about. The day disclosure of an alien presence happens is the day it all stops being their baby. Within a week no one will be interested in an obscure French researcher's opinion on aliens, it will be Britney Spears and Angelina Jolie who will be called upon for words of wisdom regarding ETs.
Nonetheless disclosure should happen. The cover-up is in our minds. A product of scientific caution prevailing over what might be the biggest news item of all. We need to do our bit to convince those that have the information that it is worth putting out today. There are no MIBs stopping them.
Most of all we need to make sure that those with the proof understand that even in our initial excitement, we won't forget that it was they who made disclosure possible.
I apologise if I upset people over last week but I can't honestly say that I regret what I did, disclosure in France and a number of other countries is something that is only a heartbeat way. At least, as a result of what I did GEIPAN received a few more emails than usual, letting them know that some of us care for what they do.

Qu'est-ce qu'un pot de merde......... eh DS
dark star
#38 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 19:08
I was telling people what was about to happen, i feel a right twat now, this only makes people think we,re nutters, I,ll be more cautious next time ! I,m still very doughtfull I,ll see disclosure in my life time, it will only come if they have no choice. I mean we wont be told for the good of our health !
#39 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 19:20
it would be good for mine would, save me getting Repetitive strain injury`s hunting this inter-web of lies? :)
#40 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 19:34

Herschel telescope 'opens eyes'
By Jonathan Amos
Science reporter, BBC News, Le Bourget

The design keeps Herschel's critical detectors in an ultra-cold state

More details

Europe's new billion-euro Herschel space observatory, launched in May, has achieved a critical milestone.

The telescope has opened the hatch that has been protecting its sensitive instruments from contamination.

The procedure allowed light collected by Herschel's giant 3.5m mirror to flood its supercold instrument chamber, or cryostat, for the first time.

The observatory's quest is to study how stars and galaxies form, and how they evolve through cosmic time.

The command sent on Sunday to fire two pyrotechnic bolts holding down the hatch was arguably the key moment in the European Space Agency (Esa) mission since the 14 May launch from Earth.

"We need the lid open or we can't see the sky, so it's a really important event," said Professor Matt Griffin, the principal investigator on SPIRE, one of three instruments inside the cryostat.

There is a YouTube video that shows what would have happened - in slow motion.

News of the hatch opening came on the eve of the Paris air show, a big event in the space calendar when Esa and the space industry come together to celebrate their achievements.

A Herschel display is a prominent feature in the Esa pavilion which the public can visit from Friday 19 June, after the trade days here at Le Bourget that run from Monday to Thursday.

Herschel (Cardiff University)
Herschel's instruments sit inside a tank kept at supercold temperatures
During final ground testing (L), the cryostat was sealed and evacuated
Only in the vacuum of space (R) can the cryostat be opened up safely
The lid release allows light from the mirror to reach the instruments
It was a critical procedure - failure would have killed the entire mission

Scientists stress it will be a while yet before they are ready to release a "first light" image from the telescope. Herschel is little more than half way through its check-out phase and it is still several weeks away from beginning full operations.

The astronomical community - and the public - will have to be patient as they wait for Esa's flagship space telescope (which is bigger than Hubble in mirror diameter) to show off its capability.

Herschel is sensitive to light at long wavelengths - in the far-infrared and sub-millimetre range.

This will allow it to see past the dust that scatters visible wavelengths, and to gaze at really cold places and objects in the Universe - from the birthing clouds of new stars to the icy comets that live far out in our Solar System.
L2 explanation (BBC)
Herschel was launched on an Ariane 5 rocket in May
The observatory is tuned to see the Universe in the far-infrared
Its 3.5m diameter mirror is the largest ever flown in space
Herschel can probe clouds of gas and dust to see stars being born
It will investigate how galaxies have evolved through time
The mission will end when all the superfluid helium boils off

Telescope seeks cold cosmos

For the observatory to see these phenomena requires that it, too, be very cold. Superfluid helium is used to take its instruments very close to "absolute zero" (-273C). This is done inside a huge evacuated tank.

For nearly two years, the instruments have been locked away in the top of this cryostat to maintain their frigid state and protect them from contamination. Only now - a month into the mission - was it considered safe to open the lid.

"Anything that's launched into space always has some water vapour and various other contaminants - volatile gases - absorbed in its materials; and in space the water and these volatiles slowly boil away into the vacuum of space," explained Professor Griffin, who is affiliated to Cardiff University, UK.

"It is conventional and necessary to wait for this to happen, to make sure these contaminants don't find their way inside the cryostat where they could condense in the instruments."

Herschel is heading for an observation position some 1.5 million km from Earth. It is more than 90% of the way there.

Indeed, its distance from home is now so great it took almost five seconds for the pyro command to reach Herschel. A slight temperature rise and a shaking detected on the spacecraft indicated to controllers that the lid opening was successful.


hershal diagram

hershal orbit
dark star
#41 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 20:30
Interesting, you know Im still having trouble getting my head around Big Bang. I,ve had it explained to me in simple language but it,s a real test of imagination.I know Im only a very small midget in this department, but I think its only partway back to the begining of every thing we know. apparently an electron sized object exploded and the whole universe came out of it. Where did the electron come from?Also time is space, no space is no time so the material universe has existed forever.My question is this......How can "nothing" instantaniously produce tiny,tiny,tiny,tiny object with the entire contents of the universe packed into it, ie every single atom, then explode with 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 x the force of the largest super nova ?
Sorry to mention the G word but after much thought it seems both obvious and logical.
Dave Hall
#42 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 22:19
Qu'est-ce qu'un pot de merde......... eh DS

Aua ee aue ee aua
As we say in Yorkshire
#43 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 22:29 | Edited by: monkeyboy
Dave Hall:
Aua ee aue ee aua
As we say in Yorkshire

alreet dave as w`say in the toon. i prefere the Officer Crabtree aproach from allo allo: I was pissing by the door, when I heard two shats. You are holding in your hand a smoking goon; you are clearly the guilty potty.

sorry DS no offence ment
Dave Hall
#44 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 22:42
dark star:
was telling people what was about to happen, i feel a right twat now

Me too DS.
I am slowly losing interest in the disclosure debate, as there seems to be lots of talking, and not much action.
Or am I expecting too much too soon ?????????????????????
#45 | Posted: 14 Jun 2009 23:18 | Edited by: CTRILEY
dark star:
Interesting, you know Im still having trouble getting my head around Big Bang. I,ve had it explained to me in simple language but it,s a real test of imagination.

This will explain what caused the big bang (sorry its in German but the film still makes it clear):

Whilst this shows how the theory of reletivately suddenly came to Einstien:
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